Ezekiel 38
Ezekiel 38
In this way of thinking, Ezekiel 38 is part of the global Armageddon battle that happens AFTER Jesus has returned. It is the 'day of the Lord' when God reveals himself to the nations through the destruction of Gog.
Here is a non-Christadelphian video that gives some reasons why this has to be.
Dr Thomas is confused on this issue. In Eureka Vol IIB p181-182 has Egypt already invadedand afflicted by 'Russo-Assyrian' Gog prior to Jesus return. This is countered by the Rainbowed Angel who conquers and restores Arabia then somehow protects Israel and p183 brings about the 'dwelling safely' Ezek 38. Then, p183, this proves an "irresistable temptation' to Gog who invades Israel (again?). Finally p184 the Rainbowed Angel comes out of Egypt and to Jerusalem and conquers Gog 'inaugrating' Armageddon.
This at least fits well the concept proposed here that there is one (Asshur) invasion before and one (Gog) 'after' Jesus returns.
Graham Pearce, however, questions this in 'How will Christ Come?' 1993,p41-42. From Isaiah 30:25 he deduces that the restoration of Arabia is 'on the day the towers fall' and so must be after the conflict with Gog at Jerusalem. He further argues that if the 'Arabian phase' happens before Gog attacks Jerusalem then it must be some time before because there needs to be enough time for the 'dwelling safely' bit to happen - having war in the south and peace in Israel at pretty well the same time 'not very likely'. Also Habbakuk shows a 'continuous forward movement of events' from the time the Holy One 'shines forth' in the south.
In the modern traditional incarnation of these ideas, Gog (seen as Russia) does indeed invade Israel after the 'dwelling safely'. However this 'safety' is now seen as a secular peace brought about politically in Israel sometime soon. Any possible link with or 'influence' of a prior 'Arabian' return of Jesus has been quietly forgotten.
(Note: The whole 'Arabian phase' needs re-examination. There are several differing versions of this in Dr Thomas's writings and none are particularly convincing, They all make the assumption that use of language relating to the Exodus is literal and not metaphorical)
It is suggested that a 'land at peace' is only possible after Jesus returns:
Ezekiel 38:6 In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.
For other passages describing Israel 'dwelling safely' see the following. Some are in the context of return or return from Babylon etc but use exactly the same language as those associated with the kingdom:
Jer 23:6 In his (Jesus The Branch) days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. this is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteous Savior. “So then, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”
Jer 32:37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. They will be my people, and I will be their God. I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them. I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. I will rejoice in doing them good and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.
Jer 33:16 “‘The days are coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will fulfill the good promise I made to the people of Israel and Judah. “‘In those days and at that time will make a righteous Branch sprout from David’s line; will do what is just and right in the land. In those days Judah will be saved Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it will be called: LORD Our Righteous Saviour.’
Ezek 28:26. When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their neighbors who maligned them. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God.’”
Ezek 34:28 They will know that I am the LORD, when I break the bars of their yoke andrescue them from the hands of those who enslaved them. They will no longer be plundered by the nations, nor will wild animals devour them. They will live in safety, and no one will make them afraid. 29I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations.
The Ezek 38 Gog invasion follows. This may be Russia/Europe etc as part of the larger 'Armageddon'. Note the only other use of Gog/Magog in Revelation 20:8 describes a global rebellion at the end of the millenium.
If Iran is the first invader then this phase cannot be Ezek 38 because Persia is only 'at the steps' of Gog.
Here is a non-Christadelphian video that gives some reasons why this has to be.
Dr Thomas is confused on this issue. In Eureka Vol IIB p181-182 has Egypt already invadedand afflicted by 'Russo-Assyrian' Gog prior to Jesus return. This is countered by the Rainbowed Angel who conquers and restores Arabia then somehow protects Israel and p183 brings about the 'dwelling safely' Ezek 38. Then, p183, this proves an "irresistable temptation' to Gog who invades Israel (again?). Finally p184 the Rainbowed Angel comes out of Egypt and to Jerusalem and conquers Gog 'inaugrating' Armageddon.
This at least fits well the concept proposed here that there is one (Asshur) invasion before and one (Gog) 'after' Jesus returns.
Graham Pearce, however, questions this in 'How will Christ Come?' 1993,p41-42. From Isaiah 30:25 he deduces that the restoration of Arabia is 'on the day the towers fall' and so must be after the conflict with Gog at Jerusalem. He further argues that if the 'Arabian phase' happens before Gog attacks Jerusalem then it must be some time before because there needs to be enough time for the 'dwelling safely' bit to happen - having war in the south and peace in Israel at pretty well the same time 'not very likely'. Also Habbakuk shows a 'continuous forward movement of events' from the time the Holy One 'shines forth' in the south.
In the modern traditional incarnation of these ideas, Gog (seen as Russia) does indeed invade Israel after the 'dwelling safely'. However this 'safety' is now seen as a secular peace brought about politically in Israel sometime soon. Any possible link with or 'influence' of a prior 'Arabian' return of Jesus has been quietly forgotten.
(Note: The whole 'Arabian phase' needs re-examination. There are several differing versions of this in Dr Thomas's writings and none are particularly convincing, They all make the assumption that use of language relating to the Exodus is literal and not metaphorical)
It is suggested that a 'land at peace' is only possible after Jesus returns:
Ezekiel 38:6 In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.
For other passages describing Israel 'dwelling safely' see the following. Some are in the context of return or return from Babylon etc but use exactly the same language as those associated with the kingdom:
Jer 23:6 In his (Jesus The Branch) days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. this is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteous Savior. “So then, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”
Jer 32:37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. They will be my people, and I will be their God. I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them. I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. I will rejoice in doing them good and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.
Jer 33:16 “‘The days are coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will fulfill the good promise I made to the people of Israel and Judah. “‘In those days and at that time will make a righteous Branch sprout from David’s line; will do what is just and right in the land. In those days Judah will be saved Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it will be called: LORD Our Righteous Saviour.’
Ezek 28:26. When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their neighbors who maligned them. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God.’”
Ezek 34:28 They will know that I am the LORD, when I break the bars of their yoke andrescue them from the hands of those who enslaved them. They will no longer be plundered by the nations, nor will wild animals devour them. They will live in safety, and no one will make them afraid. 29I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations.
The Ezek 38 Gog invasion follows. This may be Russia/Europe etc as part of the larger 'Armageddon'. Note the only other use of Gog/Magog in Revelation 20:8 describes a global rebellion at the end of the millenium.
If Iran is the first invader then this phase cannot be Ezek 38 because Persia is only 'at the steps' of Gog.
